Anxiouz
20-Jun-2023(#1)
I was wondering why Xbox chatter got quiet but I see the old thread got closed (due to lack of activity I presume?). Spinning this back up.
I'm excited about some of the Xbox stuff coming later this year (can't wait for Forza to finally get here!) but for my gaming tastes GP has been pretty terrible most of this year. My son is getting a lot of mileage out of it but he and his friends jump games a lot so it works out great and makes for a nice deal.
Slickriven
7-May(#202)I haven't tried Redfall yet but want to, it actually landed in my randomly selected set of games to try next. I didn't mean to imply that it was horrible, but it certainly wasn't good at launch and like say Watch Dogs or Cyberpunk2077 it was overhyped and missed those expectations.
Alan Wake 2 is interesting as to why it didn't do great - Epic and no Steam, digital only, not playing fully as Alan, race swapping Saga and having her be very shallow... just lots of missteps.
I heard some info about GP not long ago about how early on M$ was throwing some big $$$ at devs to get them to put games on the service, especially for day 1 launches, but that has dried up a LOT. Personally I have little issue/almost prefer that a game doesn't go on there day 1. Let the dev/pub get more sales to the folks that just have to buy it/are willing to pay to play it right away. Then 3, 6, heck even 12 months later get it on GP. Jedi Survivor just finally landed on EAplay and thus GPU almost exactly 1 year after launch. I liked Fallen Order a good bit but wasn't compelled to buy Survivor and waited it out, will be playing that soon as well since it's now available to me.
I also have noticed that lots of games, especially smaller ones, tend to hit some of the same free or cheap options around the same time. Like M$ will add it to GP, then Epic and/or Amazon Games will give it away for free and maybe it'll land on PS+ as well.
Feeb
8-May(#204)DCGX wrote:> I don't know. Most of the games on Game Pass are also available on PlayStation's
> premium service or their monthly freebies anyway. There are exceptions, but it's
> a pretty big overlap. Unless people are itching to get something on PS before it
> hits those options.
>
>
True. To clarify- MS first party games would greatly benefit from a strategy like that.
Staraang
8-May(#206)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Oh yeah MS Game Pass is a great value but almost too great of a value and some people,
> myself included, don’t just keep an active rolling 12 month subscription but rather
> look for those cheap 3 month codes and sub in for a limited time and play the few
> new shiny games then bounce not to be seen again until the next wave of new games
> comes out on the service. By folks like me who do that it probably really hinders
> their overall sales growth.
This is probably going to be my strategy when my sub expires in August. I want to complete Jedi Survivor before then which shouldn’t be an issue. I would’ve liked to complete Sea of Stars too but that’s going to be ambitious with my summer schedule. I’ll probably just start working through my backlog once I lose GP.
Heavyd814life
8-May(#207)Slickriven wrote:> Specifically for these 3 studios:
> Arkane Austin - Redfall was a huge screwup for a very hyped game that surely M$ and
> Bethesda wanted/expected more out of. Prey and Dishonored earned them a rep that
> they completely tarnished with Redfall.
> Tango Gameworks - Hi-Fi Rush was solid and their previous The Evil Within games were
> good too, but Hi-Fi should've gone to PS5 sooner and like someone else said, the
> founder left and surely many other key talents followed him.
Your point about Tango is why I'm so worried about Ninja Theory. Their founder left last month and I have no idea who heads up the studio now. It's always my worry when a megacorp buys a studio. Key people end up leaving oftentimes to start smaller, more agile studios and all that's left is the original studio name and IP.
Heavyd814life
* 8-May(#208)Archer wrote:> According to a new report from IGN, the announcement caught Arkane developers by
> surprise as they were still actively working on the first-person shooter, including
> its now-cancelled Hero Pass DLC. It's said that Arkane Austin was also working on
> an update for Redfall, due out this month, which would have added an offline mode
> to the shooter.
>
> So now its another game lost to history once the servers go offline. Which will probably
> be soon.
>
> I feel bad for the Arkane Austin people. These people have taken a lot of abuse over
> the game. But they've been working on it apparently non stop to make it what players
> wanted, and what they wanted it to be. They were forced to release it way too early
> due to the Bethesda acquisition by Microsoft. I guess they wanted another full year
> to work on it, they were told no. Microsoft wanted something for game pass in early
> 2023, so the game was rushed. Pretty messed up.
I remember reading something last year that they didn't even want to make Redfall. And then it was rushed out to fill the Gamepass quota during that period of transition where there doesn't seem to have been much oversight from Microsoft. Hurts to lose a dev this talented and makes me worry for all devs.
Someone mentioned Alan Wake a few posts ago and apparently Remedy's next game is a live service game. Feels like it could be Rocksteady all over again. We live in a world now where blockbusters are too expensive and anything unique is too risky. So live service games and remakes is all anyone wants to greenlight. If you can't monetize a game or find a way to play on nostalgia, you're kinda screwed.
Finn
8-May(#211)benstylus wrote:> Finn wrote:
>> It may not be recent and most of the current shutdowns have been western studios
>> but lets not forget Japan Studios.
>
> My understanding is although the studio was technically closed, it was mostly reorganized
> into other studios like Team Asobi
That's right, forgot about that one. But I still think Sony Lost some talent over that.
Shane12m
8-May(#215)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There are a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and become huge successes
benstylus
8-May(#216)Shane12m wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
>> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
>
> I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There are
> a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and
> become huge successes
You might think indies have a better chance but how many indie titles in a given year make any kind of splash?
Then compare that to the total number of games released every year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/552623/number-...Last year there were over 12,000 games released on Steam. Lets assume at least 11,000 of those were indies (probably much higher... I doubt the big publishers are collectively releasing 3 games a day every day all year to get to 1000+).
Start naming all your favorite indie darlings of 2023... For each one you can name there are probably 500 more that went nowhere saleswise.
Archer
8-May(#217)benstylus wrote:> Shane12m wrote:
>> TalonJedi87 wrote:
> |>> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
> |>> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
>>
>> I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There
> are
>> a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and
>> become huge successes
>
> You might think indies have a better chance but how many indie titles in a given
> year make any kind of splash?
>
> Then compare that to the total number of games released every year.
>
>
> Last year there were over 12,000 games released on Steam. Lets assume at least 11,000
> of those were indies (probably much higher... I doubt the big publishers are collectively
> releasing 3 games a day every day all year to get to 1000+).
>
> Start naming all your favorite indie darlings of 2023... For each one you can name
> there are probably 500 more that went nowhere saleswise.
>
>
11K of those weren't indie games though. 1K of those were indies. And 10k of those were shovelware, or trashware. Whatever term you prefer. Steam, PS and Nintendo are overrun with garbage releases. 80-85% of all games released on all three platforms fall into that shovelware category now. Its pathetic.
And just for arguments sake, so there is clarification. An indie is a game made by someone with actual development knowledge or skills. Someone using actual tools that aren't free to the public, or hold your hand WYSIWYG tools. Like RPG Maker for example. Or someone who owns an actual business that makes profitable games. Shovel/trashware are games that anyone of us could just slap together with basic tools and minimal knowledge/skills and get it listed for sale. I'm sure I don't need to provide examples, we all see them. All those under $5 games. Or all the anime porn bullcrap on steam.
benstylus
9-May(#220)Archer wrote:> 11K of those weren't indie games though. 1K of those were indies. And 10k of those
> were shovelware, or trashware. Whatever term you prefer. Steam, PS and Nintendo
> are overrun with garbage releases. 80-85% of all games released on all three platforms
> fall into that shovelware category now. Its pathetic.
>
> And just for arguments sake, so there is clarification. An indie is a game made by
> someone with actual development knowledge or skills. Someone using actual tools that
> aren't free to the public, or hold your hand WYSIWYG tools. Like RPG Maker for example.
> Or someone who owns an actual business that makes profitable games. Shovel/trashware
> are games that anyone of us could just slap together with basic tools and minimal
> knowledge/skills and get it listed for sale. I'm sure I don't need to provide examples,
> we all see them. All those under $5 games. Or all the anime porn bullcrap on steam.
I would guess the anime porn games are more profitable than most games that you would define as indies.
But that's part of the problem. With the flood of crap being so ubiquitous, it's often difficult to find the "good" indie titles. If they don't get noticed within the first few days of coming out, they usually get buried under the pile.
Even if the number of quality indies is closer to 1,000 a year, still maybe 2 to 3 percent of those make it big. Not great odds.
Finn
9-May(#221)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Yeah and if COD hits GP then it’ll get another price hike. Soon the value is going
> to be outweighed by the monthly fee me thinks because once it creeps up and approaches
> a wifi or cell phone bill monthly price that’s when folks might start questioning
> its real value.
Honestly I think you are going to see a price hike without the addition of new COD's. By putting the game day one on GP lets say 1 million people don't buy the new COD and instead get it on GP and lets say 70% are digital sales and 30% are physical. You are looking at roughly 63.7 million dollars that the people getting the game on GP have to spend in COD cosmetics and currency just to break even and hope for more spending to make some more money. That's a tall ask IMO. I don't buy in game cosmetics at all and getting the game on GP would not change that.. The only game that manages to get me to spend was WoW back in the day and now Fall Guys, I don't spend a lot but it offers the most temptation lol... well that and Pokemon GO when I played it more but I have not spent any money on that since my kid was born so....
Raising the price of GPU or GP for that matter may drive up sales a tad if people opt to just buy the game and forget about GP, but that would hurt the GP model and the fact that even MS has acknowledged the slow growth in new subs. Something gonna have to break at some point.
Slickriven
9-May(#223)Part of the miscalculation here is M$ looking at a game coming to GP Day 1 and thinking, this needs to drive X# of new subs. Epic store has/had similar thoughts with offering free games each week.
To ding Hi-Fi Rush for low sales makes no sense when nobody knew it was coming and it went to GP. So the active subs like me opted to try it out, maybe right away, maybe a few weeks/months later, but I just don't think it was going to entice hundreds, let alone thousands of new or returning GP subs. The genre isn't that big of a driver, sure the pedigree of Tango likely drove some interest, but clearly that wasn't enough.
Similar with Epic, them offering a certain game for free this week might get some new customers, but the vast majority of customers are likely already present, while some will almost never come onboard bc they hate the company or head guy.
I really think to save GP day 1 releases should get heavily limited. It likely made sense initially to drive interest but now the vast majority of potential subs have tried out the service and decided if they'll stay subbed or join periodically or never bother.
PizzaTheHutt
* 9-May(#226)TalonJedi87 wrote:> I mean while it certainly is nice to have a $70 game as a day 1 release, I guess
> if it keeps costs and monthly premiums down to release new titles a few months post
> launch I would be a fan of that. Plus, there's no way with my, and I'm sure other
> folks, limited time schedules, to play most new game releases day or even week 1
> anyway nowadays.
Exactly. People crapped on PS+ Extra and PS+ Premium when they were introduced a couple years ago for not getting AAA games on day one like GamePass, but I don't care, there's more than enough to play that I don't need everything day one. If a game is good on day one, it'll still be good a year later. In fact it'll probably be better a year later with all the updates and extra content that were added over time. I have games like Dead Island 2, Dead Space Remake and others that I'm forgetting right now, all 2023 releases that I've still never gotten around to playing yet. No rush. Today I'm going to download Animal Well on PS+ and I'll play and hope to enjoy it probably more than any other AAA title that released day one on GamePass so far in 2024.
Archer
* 10-May(#236)Feeb wrote:> Hellblade 2 is due on the 21st may. I’m not hearing much about it. What’s going
> on?
Everyone is concerned about it since Ninja Theory was bought by Microsoft. And there is mounting concern if this game doesn't set record numbers they could get shut down as well. Also rumors now that it was rushed to meet quarterly targets. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, or any of the concerns. Its all just speculation and rumors at this point. Its also an xbox exclusive (also pc I think) for the time being. So it doesn't have the big hype as it would if it was on all systems. The first game sold the most copies on PS4, and now its not on PS5. People are are really down on xbox and anything exclusive to them seems to be cancer at this point. So I think a lot of the hype died outside the people that loved the first game.
Feeb
* 10-May(#237)Archer wrote:> Feeb wrote:
>> Hellblade 2 is due on the 21st may. I’m not hearing much about it. What’s
> going
>> on?
>
> Everyone is concerned about it since Ninja Theory was bought by Microsoft. And there
> is mounting concern if this game doesn't set record numbers they could get shut down
> as well. Also rumors now that it was rushed to meat quartlyer targets. I have no
> idea if there is any truth to that, or any of the concerns. Its all just speculation
> and rumors at this point. Its also an xbox exclusive (also pc I think) for the time
> being. So it doesn't have the big hype as it would if it was on all systems. The
> first game sold the most copies on PS4, and now its not on PS5. People are are really
> down on xbox and anything exclusive to them seems to be cancer at this point. So
> I think a lot of the hype died outside the people that loved the first game.
I don’t do twitter anymore but months ago HB2 was already a hot topic. Take that with a grain of salt since most discussions on Twitter are probably paid mouth pieces etc. but there was a palpable hype.
Anxiouz
* 10-May(#241)The first one looked great and had some cool concepts and audio, but was an extremely simple game. By the end I was pretty bored. The bar for the sequel (to me) is pretty low. As a GP title I'm excited about it and think it'll get a lot of play from folks, but I don't know about sales. It looks like the focus again was on mo-cap and graphics, and without marketing $ being spent I can't imagine it's going to veer too far from the original.